Joshua Bridge
Sam Hahn
00:25 Josh hello can you hear me okay very
00:30 good how are you sir well just had a a
00:33 long trip to the East Coast got back
00:35 late though was it Thursday night yes oh
00:40 I’ve had one day here back already
00:41 so oh wow are you mountain time I’m on
00:47 Pacific Standard Time I think you’re in
00:49 snorty Seattle right you’re yes that’s
00:52 right yeah so we’re in the same time
00:54 zone
00:54 yes yeah when you said you’re getting
00:57 tea I was like okay I’m almost halfway
01:00 through the coffee
01:02 no problem anyway thanks for your
01:05 thoughts thanks for reaching out you
01:07 know it’s been a long time since we’ve
01:10 met each other but we’ve never had a
01:12 one-on-one so this is cool no I’m me too
01:15 i’m really appreciative because i’ve
01:17 been working on a project with welcome
01:20 i’ve been working on many projects but
01:23 trying to have a common thread in
01:25 between them all which is a hundred
01:26 percent transparency and everyone says
01:30 oh that sounds great and then when it
01:32 actually comes down to oh let’s record
01:34 this like right now I see you’re
01:36 recording it and I’m saying let’s record
01:39 it and let’s record every conversation
01:41 moving forward and everyone’s like no no
01:47 I’m with you on that I think you know
01:48 people are afraid of what showing
01:51 mistakes or being embarrassed but hey I
01:53 think that’s part of being human I got
01:55 lots of impressions and mistakes that
01:56 are already recorded you know even just
01:58 in GCC alone not to mention all the
02:01 other places that show up you know so
02:03 yeah I think it’s part of you know if
02:06 it’s possible to watch that grow say oh
02:08 look at that gaffe and then a year later
02:10 oh he made that gap year ago but this
02:12 time instead of was able to sidestep
02:14 that you know so that might be an
02:16 interesting example to hopefully portray
02:20 but there’s a lot of other examples you
02:21 know so it’s all part of being human
02:23 it’s all part of us all trying to do our
02:25 best
02:27 yeah it’s very deep – it goes and when I
02:31 say deep I mean philosophical as a
02:33 technological because when we first
02:37 started on social media I would say
02:39 around 2003 2004 you know geo cities
02:44 MySpace and I was in a group called
02:46 tribe net mm-hmm I was aware as a
02:50 computer guy that everything would be
02:53 captured for infinitum on the internet
02:55 because I’ve been making websites in the
02:56 nineties yeah so I was thinking you know
02:59 everything I post that’s there forever
03:01 so I’m you know I’ve had that mindset
03:03 for a long time and I think a lot of
03:05 people are just now realizing that well
03:08 you know subject to storage media you
03:10 know and now if we’ve got the ability to
03:12 encode things in DNA or elsewhere you
03:14 know glass whatever it looks like our
03:17 temporal range might be extending
03:20 somewhat so yeah it was a few months or
03:24 weeks you know remember floppy disks is
03:26 how the oxide would come off a floppies
03:27 you know yeah okay right guaranteed for
03:31 much more than a few years but the you
03:33 know things progressing just just to do
03:36 my last retro remember remember berries
03:39 or whatever you call it the first Sony
03:42 camera I had had a hard you know little
03:44 three and a quarter 1.6 megabyte I
03:47 remember those was I was so stoked to
03:52 have that camera that was like cost me
03:54 $1500 and I was just like wow I have a
03:57 digital camera this is like amazing well
04:01 I’m gonna tell you a story then and you
04:02 tell me what year the story happened
04:04 then okay I use got hobbyist I used to
04:07 put together my own computers so there
04:09 used to be a standard called I Triple E
04:11 six nine six which was the connect the
04:13 interconnect bus standard for ports that
04:16 could plug into this kind of personal
04:18 mainframe okay so I once was so happy to
04:22 spend only $750 for 256 K of memory on a
04:28 board yeah this big okay yeah so if if
04:35 you you know draw Moore’s Law curve or
04:38 whatever you what do you think that
04:40 was um that year would have been 1990
04:49 well yours that much earlier than that
04:52 okay I believe and you pay too much
04:55 [Laughter]
05:01 $19.99 I’m sure by 1990 memory was
05:04 cheaper than that I’m saying seven are
05:06 $50 for tour 66k okay oh wait you said
05:10 256k yeah I was thinking if it’s six
05:13 Meg’s yes this is effing right so yeah
05:16 okay this is probably around 84 85 maybe
05:21 even 83 but it was really early on
05:24 that’s yeah I’m a little bit younger
05:26 than you I guess cuz I had the Commodore
05:29 vic-20 back then I had the six we first
05:33 had the big 20 and then I got the 64
05:35 that was around but I had already stuck
05:38 him to stuck my head into I typically
05:39 six nine six and that was the route I
05:41 was headed in you know well I see I
05:44 missed it because as a kid I was um I
05:46 grew up in Cambridge right between MIT
05:48 and Harvard yeah that’s I was in Central
05:51 Square hmm and my mom sort of fell into
05:56 this group of people that decided that
05:58 homeschooling was okay yeah because I
06:01 refused as a child to go to school I
06:03 just thought school is stupid because
06:06 you went there because he didn’t even
06:07 want to go because I went in second
06:10 grade and we got to play with blocks and
06:12 then in third grade we got taken out of
06:15 the fun area and we had to sit in a desk
06:17 and go three times three is nine yeah
06:20 three times four is 12 then I was like
06:22 fuck this this is stupid you later I was
06:25 like this is the dumbest shit I’ve ever
06:27 heard I told my teachers to fuck off and
06:29 then they made me sit there with my head
06:31 down on a desk for a year in third grade
06:34 he told them that yeah that’s that’s
06:40 funny so now we get to the you know get
06:42 on zoom’ and play with our mental blocks
06:43 okay that’s what we’re doing though yeah
06:46 so now so now where I’m at is I’m
06:50 realizing all these conversations
06:52 including the one we’re having right now
06:53 if you post it
06:54 YouTube automatically goes to the
06:58 machine learning of Google and that
07:01 machine learning is gonna help the
07:04 computer learn about humans so we can
07:07 use it as an assistive tool that’s I’m
07:10 being positive not you know Terminator
07:13 style but we can use it as an assistive
07:16 tool to help to create better lives for
07:20 people to assist yeah I mean those
07:25 potential clearly exists and so we have
07:28 to decide whether or not Google is still
07:30 living by their do no evil principle
07:33 right they’re looking no they’re looking
07:37 it’s there I know I work with Google
07:39 they’re looking at it because they have
07:41 to they have to scrub it to make sure
07:44 there’s no penises or no this or no that
07:47 so they’re scrubbing it it’s in the
07:48 machine before that we get to get a
07:51 bunch of artificial intelligence I think
07:53 the humans don’t have penises and don’t
07:54 have vaginas you know that’s gonna be
07:57 hilarious yeah I don’t know I suspect
08:02 there are other sources they’d alert
08:04 that throat well instead of getting all
08:08 heady I just wanted to take it down to
08:10 something in more reality standards
08:13 which is those four principles that you
08:16 wrote down I think they’re like this
08:18 close to being perfect they’re like 90
08:21 85 to 90 percent dead-on and and whoa
08:24 the two things that really resonate with
08:26 me is the transparency part end up
08:29 holding yourself accountable to two of
08:31 your peers yeah and I was gonna ask you
08:34 how do you define your peers meaning you
08:38 know to me I think of it as like almost
08:40 an a a sponsorship but with two sponsors
08:42 see I don’t I’m glad you asked that I
08:45 actually don’t think of it that way
08:47 because it is your ships okay at first I
08:50 admit I don’t really know about a
08:52 sponsorship so I’m probably speaking out
08:54 of school although my wife either do I
08:56 am I’ve never been alcoholic so okay so
09:00 without additional references my
09:03 understanding is though that you’re kind
09:08 most at arm’s length with a sponsor’s
09:11 because you don’t even theoretically
09:13 know their last names right mMmmm
09:16 hi I’m Sam how can I’m an alcoholic but
09:18 I don’t give my last name right so I
09:21 don’t know if obviously some
09:23 relationships go deeper than that but at
09:25 least you know that’s the structure in
09:27 which it’s set up for me I’m thinking
09:29 about people who loved you and know you
09:33 well enough yeah that they can say hey
09:36 Josh I want you to take a look at this
09:38 and not be afraid that that’s gonna ruin
09:41 the relationship and that you trust them
09:46 and love them enough to know that
09:47 they’re acting on your best be half so
09:51 that you’re not gonna say fuck off you
09:53 know you’re just full of shit you know
09:55 you will actually listen to people who
09:57 love you enough to sort of help you
09:59 course-correct in your execution that’s
10:03 the kind of loving and respecting and
10:05 you know accountability that I’m trying
10:07 to find and mob and I admit that’s not
10:10 easy to find many people don’t have that
10:12 some don’t even have that with their
10:14 parents some may have that with their
10:16 siblings you know some may have that
10:18 with like best men you know etc but
10:20 sometimes that’s rare what I ask people
10:23 do they have such people most people
10:25 initially say yes but then they actually
10:28 think well you know if I say this I
10:31 think really good push back to me and if
10:32 the relationship is so tenuous that’s
10:35 not what I’m suggesting happen I need to
10:37 be able to say to you hey Josh you know
10:39 that thing you said to Anna or that
10:42 thing you said to Tammy you know can you
10:44 really take a look at this and see if it
10:46 was in everyone’s best yeah that’s the
10:49 level of which I think I would like to
10:51 see interaction happen you know the
10:52 superficial stuff happens all the time
10:54 anyway oh yeah Josh you good you showed
10:56 up you know I’m glad you were there you
10:58 shall present blah blah blah blah blah
11:00 that’s not really gonna help you
11:01 course-correct
11:02 I mean it’s all true right I don’t want
11:05 people to go the next layer and say Josh
11:08 you know how come you waited three
11:10 minutes to you don’t tell Tammy that
11:12 thought the Duff okay when whatever okay
11:16 so I I don’t want to use too many
11:17 specific examples but I do want to
11:19 indicate that it’s not in my mind
11:22 in a kind of model where you’re kind of
11:24 helping people just walk through the 12
11:26 steps and reread certain chess sections
11:29 of a book and sort of lead what in my
11:34 mind and this could be entirely wrong is
11:37 a semi well signposted path from step
11:43 one to step 12 you know there are
11:44 obviously many branches but you know
11:46 there’s kind of this destination in mind
11:48 what I’m thinking about is if I say to
11:50 you here’s what being good means to me
11:53 okay
11:54 and then you say without much judgment
11:58 obviously it’s gonna be something but
11:59 without much judgment implying that oh
12:02 that doesn’t correspond to me rather
12:04 than doing that you take a look at my
12:06 list of things and my execution of my
12:09 life and say do the two line up through
12:13 my own imposition of my values and
12:15 principles not through yours not for
12:17 somebody else’s nothing gods but through
12:20 what I said I would do it hold me
12:23 accountable to what I’m saying yeah now
12:25 obviously I’m not gonna pick you if
12:27 you’re like 180 who he’s opposite for me
12:30 where you’d like to be thrown you know
12:32 bombs into you know Carmel Washington or
12:35 how about California and I want to be
12:37 like you know attending you know dinner
12:39 parties stuff like that if we’re not
12:40 different we’re probably not gonna clump
12:43 together in these little triangles or
12:46 little COI groups but I’m thinking that
12:48 even if we are really appreciating each
12:51 other there’s still going to be some
12:53 really interesting differences and I’m
12:55 encouraging each of us to really get to
12:57 know each other well enough that for me
13:00 to be a best service to you is not to
13:02 apply apply my values to how you’re
13:04 living but it’s to apply your values how
13:07 your look that’s the name rockin that I
13:11 was kind of trying to refer to so they
13:13 were life coaches for each other
13:15 but no one’s above exactly there’s no
13:18 sense in which you know I’m better than
13:20 you you’re better than me we’re just
13:21 helping each other along because of some
13:23 dimension some dimensions you can help
13:25 me in Y think about things in you know
13:28 peer or mentorship right there with
13:30 everyone that’s ever worked with me has
13:33 always left because I told them either
13:36 a if it was a company take my job that’s
13:39 the way I’ve always done management if
13:42 you’re working for me you should want to
13:44 be me
13:45 like in other words if you’re at the
13:46 bottom of the totem pole you come in
13:48 sweeping the floors at my company
13:50 you should eventually rise the ranks of
13:52 management to the point where you are me
13:54 you’re taking my job the head of the
13:56 department if I’m the head of the
13:58 department presently and I can hire and
14:00 fire you should either want that or
14:03 maybe that’s not your ambition that’s
14:05 fine but at least gain the skills along
14:08 the way I should be training you enough
14:10 to one day where you can take my job
14:11 otherwise I’m not a good manager
14:14 I wouldn’t further ago and describe it
14:17 that if they really want to understand
14:19 you that they understand why you do what
14:22 you do not that they want to do it but
14:25 they would understand why my things the
14:26 way you do it right according to their
14:29 variables then you laid out for yourself
14:31 right and if you think you can do it
14:34 better
14:35 by all means help me and tell me cuz I’m
14:37 that’s the first thing I learned
14:39 management is I thought I knew
14:40 everything and I had it all down mm-hmm
14:43 and I was breaking records and making
14:45 the company money and then I realized I
14:47 don’t know what the fuck I’m doing I’m
14:49 winging this shit I’m 21 years old I’m
14:51 different so there’s got to be people
14:53 out there that know better than me yeah
14:56 teach me yeah I’ll talk about first
14:58 management experience it was like 1985
15:00 when Sully offered me a department
15:02 manager position in some tech company
15:04 and I was having too much fun just doing
15:05 the tech job you know learning this
15:07 learning that you know writing software
15:09 but then I said no but then the guy said
15:14 something like okay well are you gonna
15:15 be working for this person and I then I
15:17 said okay I don’t want to be working for
15:20 that person because that person doesn’t
15:21 really know what to do with this job and
15:22 all my other 12 or 13 people that I’m
15:25 working with would also have to work
15:27 with that person so in a sense it was
15:30 kind of a reluctance decision to say
15:33 either I take that position and do a bad
15:35 job of and try to learn or I let that
15:37 person do it and let them do a bad job
15:39 and learn and which is a likely scenario
15:41 for a better success of happiness
15:43 finally decided well let me try that
15:47 it’s a hard decision too because I I
15:50 learned that sometimes going up the
15:53 ladder in responsibility is just a
15:56 crappy life because you’re responsible
15:58 for all your work plus everybody else’s
16:00 it’s so hard yeah and you don’t have a
16:03 hundred percent control over it anymore
16:04 you know so that’s where all that trust
16:07 even if you’re the CEO you don’t have
16:09 control no matter like that’s the other
16:10 thing I learned in business as the
16:12 president of the company sued the vice
16:15 president and screwed up our whole
16:17 company because they were both buying
16:18 for control of the company I mean we’ve
16:23 seen yeah it’s I think I think we both
16:26 agree that the best control is I mean I
16:30 don’t know I I’d have to ask you I’m
16:32 more of a Taoist that way like the
16:34 leader should step away
16:35 [Music]
16:36 and when he does a good job but he
16:39 thinks they did it themselves right
16:44 sorry you talked about Laos who says
16:46 this way yep yeah um I’m uh can you
16:51 still hear me you dropped out there for
16:53 about five or six seconds but now you’re
16:55 back okay I’m on the Google Wi-Fi so
16:59 it’s calibrating I’m walking around the
17:01 property I’m trying to get to a spot
17:02 where I can sit down for ten minutes and
17:06 hold on one second let me see if a
17:08 calibrated
17:09 all right how are we right here it’s
17:12 pretty good right now okay great
17:15 mm-hmm yeah the Google Wi-Fi is amazing
17:17 so I was just saying Laos ooh that’s you
17:20 know what he says and I think if you
17:23 live in a place where Taoism is accepted
17:26 it works in the Western culture people
17:29 think you’re lazy not leading that’s
17:32 right yeah they don’t recognize the
17:37 subtlety with which some of the group
17:39 dynamics can be done and if they don’t
17:42 think you’ve got action items you know
17:44 being knocked off and reported on a
17:47 weekly basis you could have called not
17:49 productive so yeah I’ve seen a lot
17:53 mm-hmm
17:55 yeah
17:57 I don’t work very well in the the
17:59 Western world it doesn’t work for me
18:01 I’ve certainly hit a ceiling myself well
18:04 that’s that’s another conversation yeah
18:08 so cool well let me ask you one other
18:10 question just because it’s been on my
18:12 head what is it I see oh you said the
18:14 ico group I saw that in your document
18:17 what was I don’t know what I see Oh see
18:18 you mean the see oh I see oh excuse me
18:22 I’m Dyslexic no problem I the I the COI
18:26 for me is a group of people who’ve
18:29 decided to adopt these practices and the
18:34 fourth bullet by the way is to seek out
18:37 others who are holding themselves
18:39 accountable in such a way because those
18:43 are people with whom you may be able to
18:46 establish either friendships or working
18:48 relationships or you know alignment
18:52 possibilities where there might be
18:55 better trust and a better sense that if
18:59 there is some disagreement or
19:01 miscommunication both of them by being
19:03 so accountable to each other are likely
19:05 to converge with some positive result
19:09 whereas if people are not holding
19:11 themselves accountable and certainly not
19:12 sharing you know what they think good is
19:14 or how they think they’re doing good
19:16 then that’s not quite so easy for people
19:19 to see and really question and really
19:24 understand
19:25 so people are squirrelly that way you
19:27 know and what good means could be like
19:32 very fluid in certain situations now
19:34 obviously people grow people realize
19:36 different things as days go by but if
19:38 you’ve got that path that’s marked out
19:41 and that you’re trusting with a close
19:44 group of peers or friends or you know
19:46 this community then at least there’s an
19:48 opportunity for people to say oh I
19:50 understand what you mean by doing good
19:52 and you understand what I mean by doing
19:54 good and there’s enough there that we
19:56 could actually try and do something
19:57 together or just loosely mutually
19:59 support each other that I think is a
20:00 perfect way to start you know I think
20:03 expecting to start by working very
20:06 closely before one gets to know another
20:08 is a big mistake
20:10 that’s one
20:10 big lessons I’ve learned to thinking
20:12 about this thing called collaboration is
20:14 too quick to a line and to resonate and
20:20 to form a partnership and to get into
20:22 some kind of a contractual situation if
20:24 you do that too quickly yeah as
20:27 autonomous independent entities that’s
20:31 almost always guaranteed to result in
20:34 misunderstandings and miscommunications
20:35 if you don’t take the time to really
20:37 understand you know what do you really
20:38 want to do what’s really important to
20:40 you blah blah blah that’s why you know
20:42 Japanese get together and have three
20:43 hour dinners and you’ll see each other
20:45 get drunk stupid and silly to really get
20:48 to know each other before they go into a
20:49 conference room okay Western businesses
20:52 don’t understand that you don’t contract
20:56 you know and say look no of course yeah
21:01 it’s it’s I think with anything I mean I
21:05 come from a music background I feel like
21:07 I can meet someone at a music show and
21:10 Orey they can invite me to dinner and I
21:11 like them I meet their wife or their you
21:14 know family but I don’t know them until
21:17 I jammed out until we just picked up an
21:19 instrument and said what are we gonna
21:21 play just to find out what’s in their
21:23 head or if they go I don’t know what do
21:25 you want cuz some people go oh we’re
21:26 gonna play this song I wrote it in 1976
21:29 and it goes like this
21:30 here’s your product oh you’re one of
21:32 those people you really learn of the
21:34 husband that’s right are you you know I
21:38 wrote a blog I think I published I think
21:41 in 1995 was a long time ago called
21:44 everything I learned about management I
21:46 learned as an orchestra conductor it is
21:51 like that yeah I’ll send you the link
21:53 it’s because from 99 about 1994 about 10
21:56 years I had an opportunity to be the
21:59 kind of an orchestra conductor for a
22:00 group of 10 to 12 year olds and it was
22:03 oh wow
22:04 loved it and even before long I had
22:07 taken conducting classes for two years
22:10 with the people of Stanford University
22:12 and so I’ve done gigs you know ever
22:15 since then much much less intensely but
22:17 since then but really you know to be
22:21 attuned
22:22 to how people are behaving how they’re
22:23 contributing whether the falling behind
22:25 whether they’re paying attention you
22:27 know whether they’re trying to step on
22:29 somebody else’s idea or you know
22:31 overpower somebody else’s contribution
22:33 and we all of that he got sense as a
22:36 conductor in real time and then adjust
22:39 in real time without using words you
22:44 know there’s a subtlety and an immediacy
22:48 and responsiveness that you get to
22:51 develop that unlike the regular business
22:54 you know unlike project management you
22:58 know where stuff happens on a much
23:00 different time scale that contributions
23:01 look different you know even whether or
23:04 not you’re in sync it’s hard to tell
23:06 sometimes you know super hard especially
23:10 when people say one thing to your face
23:11 and then behind the back to the group
23:13 say another thing right exactly hey so I
23:17 guess I might have forgotten what
23:19 instrument though what set of musical
23:22 skills have you decided – sure yeah
23:24 develop so my instrument I started off
23:28 as a rapper so it’s the vocals but it’s
23:32 vocal percussion if you will because
23:35 rapping is more patate adapt adapted as
23:38 opposed to like holding the tone and
23:42 then one day my friend wanted to switch
23:46 off you know instruments and said here
23:48 take my base and I’m gonna take the
23:49 microphone and I said I don’t know how
23:51 to play the bass so I’m still learning
23:55 it and I’m not proficient at it or any
23:57 means but you know I can play I can keep
23:59 the rhythm not steady I’m not very good
24:02 the steady I’ll be honest I go off the
24:05 tempo but I can play bass and then I
24:08 went to a Blues Festival and I met Joey
24:11 hoochie-coochie pallucci he this famous
24:15 harmonica blues player and I took a
24:17 workshop with him and so he said blow
24:22 look
24:23 so now you all have you okay we’ll just
24:25 blew it out of it without boat for two
24:27 years
24:28 oh can you hear me now you’re back
24:31 so you’re dropped out for about five or
24:32 six seconds again last I heard was
24:37 harmonica player yet this guy said he
24:41 stole his brother’s harmonica and just
24:43 blew in and out for two years to learn
24:46 the process of blowing before he learned
24:48 the notes hmm so I started doing that
24:53 and I ended up learning a thing called
24:55 Tai Chi harmonica so in New York I would
24:58 perform in the subways and at Grand
25:00 Central Station
25:01 I took a mini harmonica put it in my
25:04 mouth and then did Tai Chi with so they
25:07 could hear the movement of the Tai Chi
25:10 you’re breathing great just breathing
25:13 but breathing in different volumes and
25:16 different you know the tone I’m not
25:18 playing separate notes I’m playing all
25:20 the notes at once so do you have one of
25:22 those on video
25:24 I do actually yeah somewhere on YouTube
25:27 who used to see or hear will hear that
25:29 and where did you pick up the Tai Chi
25:31 was a young style did you do the twelve
25:33 did you do that well I picked up I did a
25:36 yen style and I was trying to learn yen
25:40 yeah hmm I picked up yen style I was in
25:45 San Diego and I wanted to learn chi gong
25:48 and no one was teaching chi gong just
25:49 Tai Chi and I found a teacher in Santa
25:52 Barbara who wanted to train a big guy
25:56 like me for a workshop a pushing hands
25:58 workshop mm-hmm so she needed to you
26:02 know to get enough people there she
26:03 needed at least you know another big guy
26:06 in case another big person showed up so
26:09 she taught me we did a trade but I
26:11 didn’t want to learn Tai Chi I wanted to
26:13 learn Qi Gong so I said I’ll do it
26:15 because you’re doing chi gong for the
26:16 exercise warm-ups for the Tai Chi uh-huh
26:20 but I kind of fell in love with pushing
26:22 hands I thought that was a coolest thing
26:24 I’ve ever done cuz it took all the
26:26 physics knowledge of learning physics
26:29 mentally to actually physically feeling
26:32 the physics when a 260-pound guy is
26:34 pushing with all his might on your back
26:37 mm-hm you get to know physics pretty
26:39 quick yeah that’s fascinating so I have
26:44 still been practicing forms in jabal
26:48 style and have only gotten will just
26:51 I’ve never had that what is it’s a style
26:54 that claims to be older than Chen style
26:57 in fact the villages are very close
26:58 together so they have this you know
27:00 history feud about which is original and
27:04 which is first and which is more
27:05 effective for whatever the reason that
27:08 was kind of even worth mentioning is
27:11 because I think around 2006-2007 the
27:16 winners of the Chinese push hands
27:18 contest two years in a row were both job
27:21 all practitioners and that’s when people
27:24 sort of stood up and said what is this
27:26 job ah because they’d never heard of it
27:27 before it was always Chen style or gang
27:29 style or Sun style or mousse style but
27:32 they never heard of job I’ll stop and
27:34 intentionally they have been very
27:36 reclusive and secretive
27:38 you know just practicing about
27:39 theirselves themselves unlike the young
27:42 style which went out and just marketed
27:44 and just took over the world with Tashi
27:47 Chen has been more I guess intermediate
27:51 they they’ve retained a lot of the
27:53 martial applications but they haven’t
27:55 marketed as much as the young star guys
27:57 have although recently both are because
27:59 now we’ve got the internet you know
28:01 so it’s jump or anything like bagua know
28:07 although there are a lot of
28:09 practitioners that do both I understand
28:11 but it’s somewhat it’s a much closer to
28:16 Chen style than yang style and what a
28:18 chanst I don’t I’m ignorant I have no
28:21 idea what Chen style is okay Chen style
28:23 is if you ever sees people out there
28:26 doing so Tai Chi but occasionally
28:27 stopping and then like you know doing
28:30 these sudden you know like a whip
28:33 whipping or coiling what they call
28:36 coiling silk movements that’s Chen style
28:40 there’s you know like fist thumping
28:43 there’s you know ground stopping there’s
28:46 you know elbowing shouldering
28:50 whipping with your wrists and hands best
28:52 chen-style who has younger has taken all
28:57 of that out of the basic forms and just
28:59 sort basically concentrated on the
29:01 circular movements and so a young style
29:06 also de-emphasizes push answers at least
29:10 as far as my introduction to it Chen
29:13 style and Jabba emphasized the pushy and
29:15 it’s much much more anyway I’m still a
29:18 beginner so I’m not really an expert on
29:20 any of the stuff yeah I’ve been doing it
29:23 for I guess I don’t know I was 28 when I
29:26 started I’m turning 45 this month but um
29:29 I’m still getting my footwork down I’m
29:32 gonna be 20 years doing footwork so I’m
29:35 not gonna get the upper I was told by my
29:37 teacher don’t do the upper part until
29:39 you really get the footwork down well
29:42 yeah that’s kind of extreme because
29:44 you’re then quite dedicated because most
29:48 people don’t follow that advice
29:49 I didn’t even you know take that path
29:51 myself but but I think that it would be
29:55 fascinating to get together and try and
29:58 share some stuff because my I’ll share
30:00 one more story the person that I started
30:03 learning Tai Chi jabal Tai Chi from is
30:06 from Xi’an China so in Chinese book of
30:10 national treasures he’s actually listed
30:12 as a national treasure I don’t really
30:14 know what that means but there’s a few
30:16 thousand people only that are in that
30:17 book so his mission he says in coming to
30:22 the United States and he’s got a few
30:24 colleagues who are going you know what
30:26 to Australia went to Taiwan and want to
30:27 Germany so their mission is really to
30:31 train a generation of Tai Chi
30:33 practitioners who can go into the UFC
30:36 Octagon and prove that there is martial
30:38 application to Tai Chi oh I like I’m on
30:41 this mission cuz I keep I was watching
30:44 uh a lot of my friends are MMA fighters
30:46 and I’m watching the Tai Chi people get
30:49 there’s all these videos lately of them
30:50 getting my ass kicked
30:52 yeah and I’m thinking of myself it’s
30:53 because the way the rules are set up
30:55 it’s not because of their martial art is
30:57 bad it’s the rules they’re not allowed
30:59 to die I’m actually I don’t know the
31:03 rules of
31:04 may I can tell there’s just something
31:07 not right I don’t know there’s something
31:09 not right there it’s it’s like when
31:10 Bruce Lee fought um
31:12 boxing style mm-hmm and he got his ass
31:15 kicked it’s because the rules are
31:17 different in boxing been in kungfu yeah
31:20 so I think I don’t know the rules either
31:22 but I think yeah you’re not supposed to
31:23 bite you’re not supposed to hit somebody
31:24 in the back of heads you know those kind
31:26 of things you know not supposed to break
31:27 some of these fingers and that last bit
31:29 by the way it’s a real I mean that takes
31:32 away about 20 or 25% of Tai Chi as far
31:35 as I understand you know because it’s
31:37 like several distances in which you
31:39 encounter someone and the closest
31:40 grappling distance means that you’re
31:44 actually working leverage against joints
31:46 you know and the smallest joints are
31:47 obviously the most effective to work so
31:50 when my instructor came to the US he has
31:53 a standing let’s see there’s about eight
31:55 or nine years ago but I’ve probably gone
31:58 up since then but he had a standing
31:59 hundred thousand dollar contract he said
32:02 that people and he’s very familiar with
32:04 us when you’re a Tai Chi instructor or
32:06 martial arts instructor people come and
32:07 challenge you all the time you know it’s
32:09 been that way for thousands of years so
32:11 he’s a standing how to Adam cause he
32:12 said if you can put up a hundred
32:14 thousand dollars to cover your medical
32:15 expenses you know which are likely to be
32:18 necessary then you can challenge me okay
32:21 and so he’s gone to the army station in
32:25 Alameda California and take it on
32:29 obviously his demonstration you know but
32:31 he’s taken out two hundred two hundred
32:32 fifty pound guys and put them down and
32:36 he’s also gotten on the ground you know
32:38 with his arms crossed on his chest had
32:41 guys you know put him in a pinning
32:42 position and then gotten out of it so
32:45 that’s why they then decided to ask him
32:47 to teach Tai Chi there so he’s been
32:50 doing that for a few years anyway that’s
32:53 what I know
32:53 yeah please introduce me to this guy
32:55 because I like that mission you know I
32:57 just think it would be good for MMA and
32:59 good for the sport you know five ten
33:02 years from now for people to learn more
33:05 softer approach I mean not it’s not soft
33:09 by any means but um you know just to
33:12 learn the Jiu Jitsu has taken over the
33:14 MMA and I think Jiu Jitsu has its place
33:17 but like I was practicing with the guy
33:20 that did krama Gras you know this yeah
33:23 we’re the Russian style yeah so no yeah
33:28 Israeli and every move was either to the
33:30 knacker to my groin every single move
33:32 was boom boom neck and groin neck and
33:34 groin and I’m like how am I gonna spar
33:36 with you if you keep hitting me in the
33:37 nuts nakum it’s not one to smaller I
33:41 mean the fight is over before it begun
33:44 it’s like boom right to the neck and I’m
33:45 out it was just not fun yeah yeah it’s
33:49 curious so you can certainly see that
33:53 some styles are definitely meant for
33:55 martial application and some have been
33:57 morphed you know for more health kinds
34:00 of applications that doesn’t say they’re
34:02 not valuable they’re just you know
34:04 different though yeah I was gonna say my
34:10 takeaway from this conversation is if
34:12 you want to get two of your peers and
34:13 you really want to connect with people
34:15 there needs to be exercises like playing
34:18 music doing martial arts or doing
34:20 something that’s a real bonding or even
34:23 working on a small I try to work on
34:25 small projects with people just to see
34:27 their communication style like email if
34:31 I’m sorry I interrupted you but you know
34:35 I think if you haven’t sent spectrum of
34:37 a person’s behavior from joy all the way
34:40 to grief all the way to loss of temper
34:43 if you haven’t seen that then you really
34:44 don’t really know so now a person could
34:48 be really so in control of themselves
34:49 that you know they never show that side
34:51 to you but if you’ve never seen them in
34:53 those situations which could trigger
34:55 those most people then you really don’t
34:58 really know someone you know it’s true
35:01 yep that’s what I have a business
35:03 partner we’ve spent two years arguing
35:06 and now we’re actually working together
35:08 but it took us two years of knowing each
35:11 other inside and out now we can actually
35:13 run our business yeah and now you
35:15 probably have a good mutual
35:17 understanding and probably a good solid
35:20 foundation for mutual trust you know
35:21 probably not hundred percent but you
35:23 know better than most
35:26 it’s getting there yeah it takes time I
35:28 mean where we were triggering each other
35:30 three months ago we’re not anymore so
35:32 that’s helping that’s fine my humor yeah
35:37 my humor was gone and now she’s cracking
35:39 jokes you know when I’m all serious
35:41 she’s cracking jokes and I’m like wait
35:42 this is really serious and she’s like
35:44 yeah whatever so it’s okay learning yeah
35:48 so it’s really cool to find the music
35:50 and the martial arts mutual interests in
35:52 addition to the GCC kind of interests
35:54 you know that’s what it’s super cool
35:56 it’s just it’s a cool place to meet
35:59 people hey I wanted to share this with
36:02 you since I know I knew that you were
36:04 into music but um Google is doing a new
36:06 thing called ensign where they’re
36:09 putting AI on top of the music and
36:12 letting the artificial intelligence
36:14 compose a little bit along with you
36:16 composing you know this is a dream of
36:21 Penny me way back in 1985 84 86 there
36:25 abouts she was the bright assumes the
36:31 she was a at Stanford she was the wife
36:34 of at Vikon bone and she was trying to
36:37 use AI in creativity in art and music so
36:41 I actually wasn’t familiar with Google’s
36:43 latest project but now that you
36:45 mentioned it I’m gonna look into it
36:46 so it’s called project magenta yes I’ll
36:50 send you a link I put it on my facebook
36:53 the last couple days but it’s magenta
36:56 and then the name of the project is
36:58 called n sent all right so the letter n
37:02 is in Nancy and then sent sy n th n sent
37:06 this with oh and since okay got it yeah
37:11 and they’re just starting out they just
37:14 announced it at the Google conference
37:16 last month and it’s really fun I’m gonna
37:21 check it out
37:22 everything’s kind of merging in my life
37:24 with AI is sort of creeping into every
37:26 aspect of my life and I’m like oh my god
37:28 okay I got to embrace this AI stuff just
37:31 because you know it’s been popular but
37:33 it’s getting going so one second my
37:37 friend is uh
37:39 no problem okay take a shower so I’m
37:49 gonna have to take a shower
37:51 I got a do that too I might actually
37:54 meet somebody for brunch in about
37:56 another 75 minutes or so yeah since you
38:01 mentioned AI another piece of trivia I
38:04 spent two years at the Stanford AI
38:07 program at the Graduate AI program
38:10 didn’t actually get the degree but to
38:12 clean the classes they’re so familiar
38:16 with what the state of the practice and
38:18 state of the theory was back then in the
38:20 80s out of coffee
38:21 of course I’ve kept you know loose tabs
38:23 on what’s been going on and right now my
38:25 position in my current company is to
38:28 kind of push the frontier in AI and
38:31 machine learning for our company’s
38:34 applications and technologies so it’s
38:36 kind of a fun trip to sort of play
38:38 around with that sort of thing right now
38:41 right on yeah I mean I’m at the very
38:44 very beginning I got tensorflow last
38:46 year or never installed it never really
38:48 got into it and then I got inspired from
38:51 Aaron I think his promoter promoter
38:56 that’s what I can’t renounce it but uh
38:59 you know Aaron and I have had long talks
39:01 about his studies over in England on
39:03 machine learning and game theory and
39:06 most of the work I’ve been doing with
39:08 Aaron is he’s telling me about theories
39:10 of games and how people should interact
39:13 and I’m telling him how they actually do
39:15 from my life experiences mm-hmm
39:18 and it’s very very different you know
39:20 game theory I’m not a big proponent of
39:23 it but I know his brain thinks that way
39:25 like it’s a game so if this happens then
39:28 this happens but you know there’s always
39:32 I always look at the wild card so yeah
39:35 this triggers a little I grant on my
39:37 rants you know because economics today
39:40 is so based on John Nash’s selfish
39:44 entities game theory model that’s so
39:48 simple that it has nothing really to do
39:50 with what humans really are
39:52 and I agree that’s the basis of it
39:55 that’s why we’ve got this economy that
39:57 doesn’t provide us what we need because
39:59 it only thinks of us as producers and
40:01 consumers you know as selfish producers
40:04 and consumers you know it I used I used
40:07 to teach at the high school when I was
40:09 24 I started a company that was really
40:11 successful so they let me go back to my
40:13 high school and I showed I would bring
40:16 in you know the actual giant television
40:17 screen and I’d put in that one scene
40:21 from Wall Street where he tells the
40:23 shareholders that greed is good yeah
40:25 yeah deco yeah so and then I would ask
40:28 the students what do you think about
40:30 that do you think that’s real do you
40:32 think that’s the way life should be and
40:33 it was I would let the teenagers tell me
40:35 what they thought mm-hmm and then I
40:39 asked them to fill out a form that said
40:42 what is your 5-year plan where do you
40:45 see yourself in five years when you
40:47 graduate college what’s your ten-year
40:49 plan where do you see yourself five
40:51 years out in the workforce and I learned
40:55 a lot from the students you know what
40:57 they saw the future of the economy was
41:01 that just a short 2 hour 1 hour for our
41:03 workshop it was just about an hour hour
41:07 and a half I think actually I did him in
41:09 14 oh is 45 minutes because I did it in
41:12 a period of high school so I love the
41:15 intent of what you’re trying to do
41:16 because here’s another story when I was
41:19 a junior in high school I took a class
41:21 that was meant for seniors and I didn’t
41:23 know any better because I just moved to
41:25 the area and just decided to sign up for
41:27 it and they took me anyway but it was a
41:29 philosophy class
41:30 it was meant to be a year long thing so
41:33 I was in there for whole year and the
41:35 very last month the last 30 days or
41:37 whatever number of students there were
41:39 each of us in the class had the entire
41:43 class session to present what was called
41:46 our credo credo quia which is what I
41:49 believe
41:50 so anyone was invited to talk about
41:53 their life their values what they want
41:56 to accomplish in life you know their
41:58 difficulties the way they saw things you
42:00 know what they read what they write how
42:02 they want to interact with people and I
42:04 thought
42:05 and not thought I do think that was a
42:08 life-changing course for me because I
42:11 would say before that I probably didn’t
42:13 have a single original thought in my
42:15 brain and I didn’t necessarily produce
42:18 an original thought by doing the cradle
42:20 but it got me into the process of really
42:24 looking at ideas and world and values
42:26 and principles and people of
42:28 communication and life years of time and
42:31 that sort of thing so I mentioned that
42:34 because it’s a life changing course
42:36 I wish all kids even adults had an
42:39 opportunity to do stuff like that now
42:41 many adults have because there’s this
42:43 you know success industry that takes
42:45 thousands and thousands dollars of of
42:47 your money every weekend or you know for
42:49 weeks at a time and gives you the little
42:51 platitudes like you know you should look
42:53 at your childhood stuff like that but
42:57 yeah I thought that class was really
42:58 really good so I appreciated my doing
43:01 that even at the age of 24 you know
43:03 doing that well the only reason I did it
43:07 is to get back to my teacher who taught
43:09 me computers in twelfth grade and she
43:13 was this really strange I still in touch
43:16 with her she’s amazing lady but she just
43:18 learned computers in the 80s and wanted
43:21 us to learn it in 1991 whoo-hoo garbage
43:25 in garbage out and that one thing she
43:27 told me is the only reason I got into
43:29 computers when I was you know got my
43:32 little VX I forgot what it was my 486
43:35 computer and like 93 and it would have a
43:39 problem I would think wait a second that
43:41 problem was not something that the
43:42 computer did I did something I put some
43:45 garbage in there so therefore I could I
43:47 should be able to fix it and then I
43:50 finally learned that the people that
43:52 program computers put in garbage yeah
43:57 yeah so much of the house where the
43:59 steam is
44:01 I mean he’s also one hero so it’s not at
44:04 the time it was you know it’s not as
44:05 complex as it was now now I can’t even
44:08 figure things out now I just it’s like
44:10 magic well there’s a lot of magic there
44:15 because one of the problems with that
44:17 works and the machine learning is it’s
44:19 very hard for them to explain themselves
44:21 you know that’s one of the biggest
44:24 barriers to adoption for some of that
44:26 stuff but you know in those cases where
44:28 it’s not life-threatening
44:29 it’s providing enough value then we can
44:31 live with those kind of results you know
44:32 like robots walking across the sand you
44:34 know on six legs you know so what if
44:37 they fail you know they just destroyed
44:38 themselves but I’m still okay but other
44:41 applications you know where AI is like
44:42 controlling your life or mine yeah
44:44 there’s a bit more iffy about how much
44:47 we were actually trans transferring our
44:51 trust and these networks which we have
44:55 no idea how they were trained and what
44:58 they’re trying to optimize for you know
45:01 well Sam I love talking to you I I don’t
45:03 want to go but I gotta go pick up my
45:05 friend no prob no problem hey don’t want
45:08 too long but I hope I address some of
45:09 the question you had and I really
45:11 welcome these questions too because you
45:13 know you’ve thought about the COI ideas
45:14 I really appreciate that and give me a
45:16 feedback it allowed me a chance to
45:17 respond so I think that’s really awesome
45:19 yet not only did I think about it but
45:22 I’m trying to put it into practice so
45:23 I’m asking people what I what I was
45:26 trying to do is group everyone together
45:27 but now I’m ungrouping people and asking
45:31 each person what their ideal team would
45:34 be and helping them build their team
45:36 yeah going from grouping to ungrouping
45:40 but then I need a connector in between
45:42 and I’m thinking it’s actually more like
45:44 three instead of two so I was gonna ask
45:47 you
45:48 and Doug to be my two peers but then
45:51 also have a third which is I’m a mentor
45:54 for somebody else so there’s a trial log
45:57 that triple connection and I’m helping
46:00 you with your project I’m helping Doug
46:02 with his project and then the third
46:04 maybe it would be someone like Aaron I’m
46:05 helping him with his doubt dowse project
46:07 so the three of us I’m accountable to
46:11 you and Doug I’m not accountable to
46:12 Aaron and Aaron’s not accountable to me
46:16 but I think there’s something out of
46:18 this meant I get more out of helping him
46:20 than he probably gets out of me because
46:22 he’s teaching me so much so that’s
46:26 hey I think the people that are in this
46:29 community if we’re really expressing
46:31 ourselves of what we want are okay with
46:34 shifting timeframes of receiving and
46:37 giving value you know like we can have
46:40 conversations where Doug helps me and I
46:42 almost you know say nothing to him
46:44 because he’s focused on something with
46:46 me but I find that there’s a patience in
46:48 a perspective where somewhere at some
46:51 time we’ll be able to do something
46:54 together in a very different manner same
46:56 with Tammy you know same with Anna so
47:00 same with Harry so I think that this
47:02 quid pro quo that is almost instituted
47:07 by what Doug calls the current frame
47:09 really almost gives us this immediate Oh
47:14 what could I do for that person or what
47:15 could I do for me who are as if we’re
47:17 thinking more long-term community and
47:19 relationship then that is to me less of
47:22 an issue you know that there’s yes that
47:25 we’re brilliant something together you
47:26 know yeah exactly and let me be clear I
47:29 don’t want to do quid quo pro I really
47:32 don’t want to I I don’t like that I’m my
47:35 spiritual beliefs is just you give to
47:37 give not to receive you just give but
47:40 what I do want to do is when I’m talking
47:42 to you taking notes about your thing
47:45 that you’re doing and if you’re
47:46 committed to transparency saying
47:50 everything that we’re doing this is open
47:52 source on you can share this with other
47:54 groups I feel like those little nuggets
47:57 of information are like that’s the real
48:00 value that’s the Bitcoin if you will and
48:02 then in the that little Basecamp model
48:05 you can copy or move information so if
48:08 you we’re working on something and it
48:10 works really well you can say in you
48:13 know a couple seconds boom boom boom now
48:15 that’s shared across the board with all
48:16 the other groups yeah whether it helps
48:19 them or not it’s at least they’re in
48:21 their toolbox and they could use it or
48:23 not use it and maybe out of ten groups
48:25 you share it with two groups go you know
48:27 what that really helped me on my project
48:29 because do you guys thought about it
48:32 yeah that’s that’s why I’m so one last
48:35 thought before you go and I sorry
48:37 not 30 seconds but if you notice in the
48:40 transparency of the COI principles I say
48:43 within the circle of trust within the
48:46 COI because even though I and you
48:48 probably a comfortable I’m not sharing
48:50 it more broadly I don’t expect everyone
48:53 to immediately feel that way so I’m
48:56 thinking that if we keep this within the
48:59 COI at least to start with people feel
49:02 more willing to try this as opposed to
49:05 saying oh well I’m think I’m saying is
49:06 gonna be like absurdly real quick what a
49:10 CEO I stand for head
49:12 what immunity of impact I’m not sure
49:14 it’s a good name but that’s what I’ve
49:15 been calling it you know okay but then
49:17 fair enough I’m calling it yeah your COI
49:19 is my compassion and technology
49:21 collective okay so let’s really plug
49:24 these uh together and explore the
49:26 tendrils of where they connect and you
49:28 know where interestingly they might
49:29 actually still not yet connect that
49:31 would be fascinating conversation let’s
49:33 do it and I want to also make I’ve
49:35 realized to get someone into the COI is
49:38 a commitment and I want to do an actual
49:40 dollar amount something nominal like a
49:42 cup of coffee five dollars a month but
49:45 that allows for a signing of an
49:48 agreement in exchange a transaction and
49:52 if they’re not committed to do those
49:55 things that it can just leave and may
49:57 they be happy to leave it they you know
49:59 if they’re not into it yeah by the way
50:02 an interesting conversation that I’m
50:03 hoping we have at some point would be
50:05 around what I’m calling a CCC which is
50:08 this unilateral invitation to
50:12 collaborate so I don’t know if you’ve
50:14 come across that yet but that’s
50:16 something that I’d like to talk to you
50:17 about at some point it’s referenced in
50:19 this I’d like that yeah I met but I’m at
50:22 the place right now where I need to get
50:23 this form created where people I could
50:26 fill out that form because I’m inviting
50:28 people to come in as alpha testers and
50:31 I’m out of alpha test now I’m ready for
50:33 beta test okay so let’s do that let go
50:37 so good conversation Josh thanks for
50:40 reaching out let’s do it again yeah my
50:41 pleasure
50:42 you made my Saturday morning them date
50:44 YouTube thanks a lot
50:46 choo choo okay talk to you later bye bye