Practical Work On Records

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This topic contains 4 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  skreutzer 2 years, 5 months ago.

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    To provide some context: I tend to work with text and also have issues with video, then became increasingly interested in hypertext (Nelson, Engelbart, Gelernter, Cunningham and many others) to end up with learning about the many things Sam Hahn as well as other people in his vicinity produced. Now, I’m quite suspicious about the solvability of urgent, complex world problems and the diverse things the GCC is or isn’t up to, all of which can be discussed in greater detail, BUT none of that necessarily needs to matter when it comes to practical work on historical records.

    Now, important aspects to consider:

    1. I’m not present in the Zoom calls
    2. I didn’t (co-)create any of the historical records

    and I’m probably not the only one and won’t be for whom this is true when encountering your recorded, published material. Some randomly selected things you guys seem to want from your repository/archive of created works:

    • Compensation
    • Establishing identity
    • Bird’s eye of what’s going on
    • Human-centric augmentation of generative collaboration
    • A lot (knowledge-wise)
    • Nothing

    I have no idea if and how those are reconcilable or if there is a need to, and I would have a different agenda of course. I’m primarily interested in building tools and curate the repository/archive, which could be a supporting function for the GCC. On the other hand, such an activity would certainly come at a cost in terms of time investment. To justify it, one way would be that the tools are generally useful, not only on your data, but on my own and on other projects as well, but that’s probably not too realistic as you have some special circumstances there. To justify specialized work or any curation, what would I get out of it? It makes no sense to write comments on the video call recordings and engage if the underlying source material that’s referenced can be pulled from with-under me, if I can’t distribute it independently. I also have no administrative access to the current distribution channels to approve/publish my own comments or derived works based on your archive. So I would request the material to be licensed under a libre-free license, but that could be impossible to agree on and might or might not be in conflict with the other goals you already have yourselves. The video list by Sam itself is probably not copyrightable in the traditional sense, but somehow they sneaked in legal restrictions for database works (it’s a creative human expression how the vendors organized the telephone book, we’re supposed to believe), so that might not be usable either.

    What I could do is to create my own list of videos published by Tammy, because she uploaded/published the videos on her channel under the Creative Commons BY 3.0 (maybe by accident via configuring a default license), so that’s libre-free, with the downside that the lack of the SA clause (not supported by YouTube as an option), I’m and everybody is allowed create/publish restrictively licensed derived works, so you would not get something contributed back for your contributions, meaning that the creator of the derived work would only have the benefit and you/we/humanity as a community wouldn’t (that’s for 70 years after the death of the last contributor, if copyright terms don’t get extended even more into perpetual, infinite copyright despite being forbidden by the US constitution). But that’s an option, to computer-generate the transcript from Tammy’s uploads, independently publish my comments to them and maybe do some other curation, to mine what’s in the conversations and also develop the tools/technology on a practical example, so that it can be bootstrapped and co-evolved.

    Otherwise, one could consider to write a program that reads the Google Spreadsheet or the table on the site, extracts the links, automatically puts them into WordPress, also automatically reads YouTube comments and posts them to the corresponding WordPress post (or other target like e-publication, PDF for print, whatever). The transcripts from YouTube or as copied into a Google Doc, there I wouldn’t be too sure if they can be obtained somehow and automatically matched to their video as well, that would be something to investigate. But these scenarios are likely a little different from what you want/need, and I’m moving too slowly, maybe we cannot make it worth the effort, and there’s also the problem that you guys know how to use WordPress and Google Spreadsheets, but pieces of custom code might be a little rough to use, maintain and preserve.

    Still, maybe I’ll experiment along those lines anyway one day, just because it’s interesting to work on this type of problems, maybe pushing the video posts on a non-public WordPress instance of my own, maybe one day supporting all kinds of arbitrary video link lists so that you can easily set up your own discussion space for videos so you would own the comments made by others and don’t have to rely and be fooled by Google/YouTube, those things and tools for curation (tagging of transcripts etc.) are more generalized Engelbartian and TimeBrowser capabilities needed independently of the GCC repository/archive.

    Update: I tricked my way into editing this post despite it looks like the site/interface doesn’t want to let me 😉



    Somehow I can’t edit the initial topic post any more (was possible a few minutes ago), anyway: via Sam Hahn’s connections, there are similar things going on as well, with WordPress and without, along the lines of this, this and this. Too much to read, I know, but the point of this thread is that you don’t have to read any of it and can get a condensed summary in case of interest 😉




    I can trick my way into editing the initial topic post, but not into editing replies, so here’s another reply to myself: if there’s somebody in this group who has/sees those problems and is serious about working on it for solving/fixing the issues (not just talk), as long as the work isn’t a result of collaboration (for full control of the author over legal permissions), we could look into doing something within or outside of the GCC context, if there’s no objection about the slowness and tediousness of the progress, but the hope is that it eventually leads somewhere in contrast to the artifacts that probably are lost by now.



    I’ve found and listened to several moments by now that are pretty discouraging, but what follows from 53:12 of 20180916 GCC Sunday Unblocking is incredibly scary! Being just an individual as well, I decide to not to play as the only reasonable move. Let’s talk again when you’ve discovered what the problems are – not to rescue anything at an even later stage, but to start over.

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